Dayton 200 winner disqualified!

[NinjaNick]

JOSH HAYES is a cheater!

http://superbikeplanet.com/2008/Mar/080308jhdqt.htm
http://www.bikeland.org/story.php?storyID=37646

:cool: Looks like KAWI took 1st and 2nd then.

[NinjaNick]

DAMNIT! It won't let me EDIT the title!

It should say "DAYTONA" not Dayton. :rolleyes:

[EagleCock]

:eek:

[Desmo-Brian]

JOSH HAYES is a cheater!

http://superbikeplanet.com/2008/Mar/080308jhdqt.htm
http://www.bikeland.org/story.php?storyID=37646

:cool: Looks like KAWI took 1st and 2nd then.


Erion cheated - not Josh. Josh deserves what he's been given and he actually has been shorted a lot of what he should be given. He's worked hard, is a great guy and has been overlooked by too many other teams.

Erion is the issue here - not the rider....

Plus, FX is a joke, anyways... Just like Superbike. What, the 200 is the biggest amount of factory riders you'll see. Once the series goes out of Daytona, the rest will be amongst the Attack and Erion teams only... Lame.

[NinjaNick]

Guilty by association.

[Casper]

That really sucks. He probably didn't even know about it.

[NinjaNick]

Hey Satan, can you put an A after Dayton in the title please?

[Desmo-Brian]

Guilty by association.


Dude, he's not guilty. Trust me, every team cheats. Every team. Every top level racer cheats, as well. Grey areas exist all over the place in the rules. Knowing how to dance around them is an art in of itself.

Calling a racer a cheater because of a motor that wasn't touched by him is BS and stupid. Calling a race team cheaters isn't so bad since every one does it. Who's your favorite team? Guarantee they bend the rules and swim in grey area all the time...

[Desmo-Brian]

That really sucks. He probably didn't even know about it.


Josh is one of the few racers that actually is very hands on. He does a lot of stuff on the bike in terms of general type things. See him wanting to hold the fuel can? WERA experience there, folks...

Anyways, he had nothing to do with the motor build on those bikes. None...

[NinjaNick]

This just in from Honda:
HONDA RACING INFORMATION

Daytona 200 winner Josh Hayes disqualified by AMA officials

Josh Hayes was disqualified as the winner of the Daytona 200 by AMA officials after they found his race-winning machine to be in violation of the AMA Road Race rulebook.
"We've appealed their decision and basically that's our side of it," Rick Hobbs, Hayes' crew chief said. "We've appealed the technical inspection and also the penalty, disqualification." He added, "At this point we're not going to make any statement on what our version is until we file the appropriate paperwork with them."

The crankshaft on the race-winning Honda was found to be "polished, surface treated and metal was removed from it," AMA Pro Racing said in a press release announcing the infraction. "This is in violation of the 2008 AMA rulebook section 5.4."

The release cites a section of the rulebook which states that for multi-cylinder liquid-cooled machines, homologated crankshaft "may not be altered from the originally homologated model except that the "Bearing surfaces may be polished or surface treated."

The press release was issued late Saturday night, well after team owner Kevin Erion had left Daytona International Speedway. He was told by a team member of the infraction just before returning to his home in California.

The appeal process begins with the filing, which "must be received at AMA Racing headquarters by 5:00 p.m. on the third business day after notification to the participant via fax, telephone, or mail of the ruling or incident in question," according to the AMA Road Race rulebook. The appeal board, which is chosen by the Senior Director of Racing, consists of three people "with no material interest in the matter at hand," the rulebook states. The appeal must take place within 45 days of the incident.

[NinjaNick]

Lizard if you've seen any of my daily wear/apparel, or my wifes, or some of the drinking glasses in my home, then you will know that we are a MONSTER KAWASAKI family. ;)

[gixxie750]

That really sux! Good race to watch! I feel for #17 too changing bikes first lap and worked his way all the way back throught the pack just to get disqualified a couple laps from finish. Also in the 600 races i got to watch a racer i have mock raced with. Josh day#464 finished 11th place! Cool to see people on tv that you know!

[NinjaNick]

#17 is Miguel Duhamel. Only one of the best AMA racer of our time. Yeah, poor guy got fucked. He's a 5x 200 winner.

[NinjaNick]

Miguel Duhamel is my favorite other than the Kawi team. Duhamel and Zemke are my fav's.

[NinjaNick]

Another topic:

http://www.ohio-riders.net/showthread.php?t=11242

[Desmo-Brian]

Lizard if you've seen any of my daily wear/apparel, or my wifes, or some of the drinking glasses in my home, then you will know that we are a MONSTER KAWASAKI family. ;)

Welp, they've been busted doing some illegal things, as well. Hell, I know the guy who did all of Tommy's stuff while he was on the Kawi team. There's plenty of "creative design" going on with motors and such. Trust me... Erion just got caught. That's it. Not like any of the other teams haven't...

[Desmo-Brian]

That really sux! Good race to watch! I feel for #17 too changing bikes first lap and worked his way all the way back throught the pack just to get disqualified a couple laps from finish. Also in the 600 races i got to watch a racer i have mock raced with. Josh day#464 finished 11th place! Cool to see people on tv that you know!

What is "mock racing"?

[gixxie750]

Jennings gp has them on their 3 day track weekends. Its just like a race,but no points or anything.
Here is the start of the race with him and me. I'm to his left
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i206/tl1000ss/DSC01336.jpg
Him in turn 12(just passed me)
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i206/tl1000ss/DSC01314.jpg
Lining up for start
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i206/tl1000ss/DSC01334.jpg

[Desmo-Brian]

Jennings gp has them on their 3 day track weekends. Its just like a race,but no points or anything.
Here is the start of the race with him and me. I'm to his left
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i206/tl1000ss/DSC01336.jpg
Him in turn 12(just passed me)
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i206/tl1000ss/DSC01314.jpg
Lining up for start
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i206/tl1000ss/DSC01334.jpg


That's pretty cool, for sure. He's a good kid.

So, you coming to some track days and whatnot? I know you said you're racing and all, but just wondering if you'll be up our way. If you do, stop by and say "hey"...

[gixxie750]

I am going to race as much as possible. I deff am going to get some track days too. Where you going to be at? I would deff like to meet you and get some track time in. He was a super nice guy and i was shocked when he told me he was 18 lol. I got the wholeshot on him up to turn one and then he blew me away lol. I got 8th and i started on pole,but i was the only one with a yellow plate and new to Jennings.

[Desmo-Brian]

I am going to race as much as possible. I deff am going to get some track days too. Where you going to be at? I would deff like to meet you and get some track time in. He was a super nice guy and i was shocked when he told me he was 18 lol. I got the wholeshot on him up to turn one and then he blew me away lol. I got 8th and i started on pole,but i was the only one with a yellow plate and new to Jennings.


I help instruct at STT. Usually doing the Mid-O events and a few Putnams. Look for my bike pictured in my avatar. If I can help in any way, just shout.

[kawi kid]

i knew a honda couldnt beat a kawi fairly j/k...... no seriously that really sucks he did a hell of a job and worked hard. and he prob had no idea about the crank either.

[Casper]

Officially Honda is contesting the decision. We'll see what happens.

[kawi kid]

yea but really how many times has any racing association overturned their decision after an appeal. its as good as given away already in my book.

[Angrish]

Larry looked good out there.....and working in the pit!

[yotaman88210]

Larry looked good out there.....and working in the pit!

Yes he did. Finished 4th too. Not bad at all! :banana:

[Desmo-Brian]

The appeal won't fly. It's a legit rule violation. It is obvious that someone at Honda/Erion screwed up and probably more a communication issue than anything.

Realize this - Erion KNOWS Josh is a pretty damn likely candidate to win the races he runs in FX or even SS. So, doing what they did to the crank is something that was ill communicated. In other words, Erion knew the bike would be torn down and the crank is certainly always checked. If they were to cheat, that wouldn't be what they'd try and cheat with.

Not making it sound as if they didn't cheat - they broke the rules, but it isn't an area they'd try and change something as they know they are always going to be checked out in detail...

Plus, Josh lost more than points. Pro racers get a lot of their income from bonuses. Josh probably stood to lose $250k or better in bonuses for that race... Hopefully, Honda still pays him the bonus and the AMA doesn't hurt him too badly in terms of points. I'd like to see him be allowed a few points as opposed to a DQ with zero points, but we'll see... I suspect that Erion will at least give him an amount to offset the bonuses he lost. Plus, they will probably have a rehash of contract due to the fact that he could possibly get less than first in the championship to to zero points...

Shame.

[John]

heres what i wanna know.

when they do a pit stop, how do they change the rear wheel so quickly? what happens with the chain and sprocket? is that on the axle and not the wheel or something?

how do they make sure its aligned too? is there just zero room for chain slack and adjustment?

[Desmo-Brian]

heres what i wanna know.

when they do a pit stop, how do they change the rear wheel so quickly? what happens with the chain and sprocket? is that on the axle and not the wheel or something?

how do they make sure its aligned too? is there just zero room for chain slack and adjustment?

Captive sprocket assembly. Essentually, the sprocket carrier is left on the swingarm. Common on WERA National teams like Vesrah, even. Typical of any machine needing pit stops. I'll try and dig a pic up...

[kawi kid]

hurry up ill get my popcorn cuz i am trying to picture this.

[NinjaNick]

I'm curious about that too John. Good question.

[attackpainter]

Josh has no clue as to knowing what is inside the cases on his motors. Rick Hobbs of erion on the other hand does. Just like Stanboli with Attack. The AMA now has Jim Rashid of 4&6 racing doing tech teardowns and the man knows what to look for. As far as the quick change stuff Attack machines all of there own in house. Its all about $$$$ when it comes to buying those types of parts

[attackpainter]

Yuichi Sato is the Formula extreme Engine builder and Matt Zurbuchen is also a builder at erion. Those guys know what goes on. The ama always tears down the bikes, just not always to the extent of going down to the crank

[NinjaNick]

Are there people here that work on professional teams or something?

[attackpainter]

I have done some stuff with Attack. Richard is one of the nicest guys youll ever meet. I helped them at willow and will be helping at a few rounds this year , Im not a technician with them but I was in the pits at daytona with the guys. Ask any ama rider He builds some of the nicest equipment around.
Spies rode for him so has hayes pridmore alot of top level guys. I get a hell of a deal on bikes from him and they go forever.

[attackpainter]

I know a few of the erion guys as well and wish them the best of luck. Its sad to see Josh ride that hard for it to all be taken away. And what they allegedley have done wouldnt have given him much advantage. Rules however are rules they havent changed.

[kawi kid]

attackpainter i wanna see some pics of you bikes. your description of "former Attack bikes and a bunch of other kawis" peeked my interest.

[attackpainter]

Ill post a bunch up when i get time at work in the am

[attackpainter]

http://s202.photobucket.com/albums/aa271/attackpainter/ theres a few until i get time to load some new ones up

[kawi kid]

excellent!! there must be a new thread dedicated to this.

[Desmo-Brian]

Ok, some quick pics I could find... Friend runs and rides for the Vesrah team. Note the wheel sitting to the right - notice no sprocket and the five sided spacer. The sprocket and chain do NOT come off the swingarm. The spacer essentially locks into a carrier that holds the whole assembly. See the chain and sprocket are in their normal position as Pat is sliding the rear wheel in...

http://www.teamchicago.tv/images/Vesrah_pit_stop.jpg

Here's a different view showing how the sprocket is left locked in place...

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/8229/vp7l8503as2.th.jpg (http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vp7l8503as2.jpg)

Hope that helps. Tough to describe... Seen it so much I guess I never really saved any pics other than what we were doing for endurance. Those are files on another computer...

[Desmo-Brian]

Hmmmm.... Interesting... Jim has always been a dick and I wouldn't be surprised...

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Mar/080311z.htm

[NinjaNick]

"Lighting fast" :D Wonder if they meant "lightning".

Wish my tire changes were done that fast. :eek:

[kawi kid]

Ok, some quick pics I could find... Friend runs and rides for the Vesrah team. Note the wheel sitting to the right - notice no sprocket and the five sided spacer. The sprocket and chain do NOT come off the swingarm. The spacer essentially locks into a carrier that holds the whole assembly. See the chain and sprocket are in their normal position as Pat is sliding the rear wheel in...

http://www.teamchicago.tv/images/Vesrah_pit_stop.jpg

Here's a different view showing how the sprocket is left locked in place...

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/8229/vp7l8503as2.th.jpg (http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vp7l8503as2.jpg)

Hope that helps. Tough to describe... Seen it so much I guess I never really saved any pics other than what we were doing for endurance. Those are files on another computer...

so when the bikes pulls in they lift it up remove five bolts and the tire comes right off?

[yotaman88210]

I think they still have to slide the axle out on some designs... but still, 15 secs for fuel, and two new rubbers is NUTS!!.......
And on Ducatis, they can do a new clutch in about the same amount of time too.

[kawi kid]

lol i forgot about the axle

[Desmo-Brian]

so when the bikes pulls in they lift it up remove five bolts and the tire comes right off?

No. The axle is slid out like normal (Well, it is welded and fabricated to come out easier than OEM/stock) and the wheel with that 5 sided spacer is actually pulled out of a carrier that is 5 sided, but has an opening towards the back. Think a "C" shape that you are inserting a round item into... Axle holds it all in place under rotation...

Not technical in terms, here - Laymen's terms...

[Chrisoh]

I remember the days of the 7 second fuel and tires stops of the 200 as superbikes. That and no speed limit in pit lane. That was awesome to watch.

[attackpainter]

http://s202.photobucket.com/albums/aa271/attackpainter/?action=view&current=quickchange18.jpg http://s202.photobucket.com/albums/aa271/attackpainter/?action=view&current=quickchange11.jpg

[NinjaNick]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa271/attackpainter/quickchange18.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa271/attackpainter/quickchange11.jpg

[attackpainter]

thanks for the help i suck at posting pics but those are some of the quick change pieces

[Desmo-Brian]

Attack - check your PMs on the WERA site...